BB Interviews a CDG Sicario

A few days ago, I happened to be talking to someone on the internet, and while talking about cartel activity, he suddenly got me by surprise. This is the pre-interview, while texting. Most it’s not edited, other than some obvious misspelling.

El Fantasma: “I will confess you something. Im a ex cartel member i want no trouble with no one i did my time in jail i gave up that life back in 2011 Im From CDG.”

Buggs: “We should do an interview, written, so people can learn?”

El Fantasma: “My code names were  Alacran 131 , Escorpión 130, XW 121. My boss was Tony Tormenta TT160.”

Buggs: “Where you in Mexico?”

El Fantasma: “Yes”

Buggs: “I was covering the region during Tony Tormenta.”

El Fantasma: “I was there when my boss was killed in matamoros in nov 5.I can still remember that day.”

Buggs: “That was a bloodbath, they caught him once then released him, they tried to catch him again, were you part of the Escorpiones who tried to rescue him.”

El Fantasma: “Its funny how they only said about one gun fight in nov 5 in matamoros and the were 2 gun fights thats day. Yes, I was 3 blocks aways. I was in from of el periodico el bravo en la calle primera. I saw the cameras in front of the building. My truck got shoot by the helicopters that day.”

Buggs: “Do you know who I am?”

El Fantasma: “No. I really don’t want to know. Like i told you i just don’t want any trouble.”

Buggs: “I am Buggs, I wrote a book about cartels events from 2008 to 2013 when I was involved. You will never get in trouble with me.”

El Fantasma: “Cool! I was there when the war started between z and cdg.”

Buggs: “You willing to do a written interview, we will keep you identity secret?”

El Fantasma: “Maybe. Like what kind of stuff you want to know. How the zetas pay the mexican solders 15 millions so they can come and start gun fight in matamoros , reynosa ect so the zetas has time to move in our territory. Or how the mexican government would take there payment. I started in 2008 in vallehermoso Tamaulipas. I stared as a lower rank as a FR = fursa y reacio. Those are the ones that are protecting the city every day.”

Buggs: “Yes, I assure you I will protect your identity, but we can learn more about what happened then. And a little about how it is now if you know. Most of the players during Tormenta and Cardenas are no longer involved anyhow. All that info is so interesting, I wrote a lot of detail about it in my book.”

El Fantasma: “Yea like the lawyer that got killed in south lay texas. Cardenas gave order to Wicho , tormenta , tyson to kill all the zetas. Tyson Escorpión 1. You have earn your way up in the cartels you have to be willing to be in gunfight, follow orders, they need to know your acutely worthy to move up ranks.”

Buggs: “Yes, I wrote a lot of Tyson, was he killed during the attempted rescue of Tormenta? I saw the pictures.”

El Fantasma: “I remember he gave me 10 thousand dollars when I joined. El comandante cuello was his right hand men. Every body found out that Costilla turn in Tormenta. He made a deal with the mexican marines if he turn in tormenta they would let him work. So los Escorpiónes did not want to work with el coss so el coss started to kill them.”

Buggs: “Escorpoines did not want to work with El Coss?”

El Fantasma: “The cartel found out about all the CIA people in matamoros. Were they work at what areas were they work at. Nope they didn’t. El coss only protected his people, Even were they live at too.”

Buggs: “Did you know Heriberto and Miguel el 40?”

El Fantasma: “El 40 fuck him aka el san judas. He was from CDG L 40.”

Buggs: “That is what I heard.”

El Fantasma: “El traisiono a lazcano.”

Buggs: “But went with the Z after Cardenas got arrested.”

El Fantasma: “Yeap.”

Buggs: “I knew two people who were not tortured or decapitated in Tam, just shot in the head, it was not a cartel MO, so that is why I think they were killed by military or police, what do you make out of it?”

El Fantasma: “I will tell you something about them you will be surprised. Military will take you and torture you and if you die they will put they were involved with the cartel and make up stories. The police they will give us all the people they would capture so i interogogarlas. Yo interoge a mucha jente when i was there i wrote all that info in a notepad every name, age, ect. Police will algo give any one to the military.”

Buggs: “Any info you have would be great to have (about a person missing I mentioned that I can’t name)”

El Fantasma: “Well if they found their body its good. If not they could be over by the beach were they put them in tambos and burn there bodys. I been there were they burn there bodies its close the the beach in matamoros.”

Buggs: “Yes, horrible that is what Z did in Allende.”

El Fantasma: “The zetas will do that but there big mistake is que los entieran. We would trade people police and military would help us capture zetas and we trade money for people.”

El Fantasma: “The new guys, they really don’t know how to work they just think they have balls but i seen their work y nope, they don’t. I wouldn’t trust them with my life. These were the men in my team; Comandante cortes escorpión 42, C Barrera, C ranger, C. Tito, E . Aka el tigre, E aka chachin and C salas.”

Sometimes is hard to tell who is legit, but this person had a lot of detail, names, events, arrests, kills, etc, , , 

There is also other information that I can’t really talk about for security reasons, this is the kind of stuff I use in my training to US LEO that is sensitive information. I have been approached many times to do interviews by people who claim they were involved in cartel activity but during a process of vetting, if I am not able to establish credible then I don’t waste my time. The interview is raw and sometimes things get lost in translation, bare in mind when thing do  not make sense, I tried not to change the narrative.

The Interview

BB: “Tell me as much as you can about yourself that relates to the Cartel, who were you with, time frames, your position, who did you work under?”

El Fantasma: “I started in vallehermoso tamaulipas in 2008, my code names were Alacrán 131 , Escorpion 130, XW 121, I work for CDG under Tony tormenta , comandante E-1 , I was a hit men , staka, puntero, bodyguard. I was in the war between los Z & CDG in matamoros, vallehermoso, reynosa tamaulipas, santa polonia, and other cities. We help people escape from the penal in matamoros in 2010. For the war against the zetas in valle hermoso we were looking for zeta Paco Banda he was in charge of vallehermoso tam and we were also looking for zeta Apache in vallehermoso. In 2010 me and comandante Ranger were in a meeting with the mexican marine general.”

BB: “Did you ever served time as a result of being involved with the cartels or the trafficking of drugs?”

El Fantasma: “I served time in Olmito, Texas.”

BB: “What names did you go by while with CDG?”

El Fantasma: “My names in was going by were El Fantasma, Escorpion (see above) or my real name.”

BB: “Who were the plaza bosses with CDG while you were a member and what role the Zetas play while you were a member?”

El Fantasma: “the bosses in charge those years were El coss, tormenta , wicho, Siera, the zetas were our right hand people they did the dirty jobs for the CDG  and the CDG were in charge of the Plazas and the boss zetas were our escorts when we transported drugs and money and weapons.”

BB: “What was your function or role while with the CDG?”

El Fantasma: “My function in the cartel were to take care of the plaza and the boss and pick up people when they give us orders to pick them up and to be there for any gunfight.”

BB: “Did you participate in any armed conflicts or executions?”

El Fantasma: “yes I was in a lot of executions we used to take the people to areas around town or outside of town I saw a lot of that every day we never killed children the children were given to the DIF those were our orders.

gunfight with the 40 = soldados, 41 marinos, 43= policía federal and special forces we try avoid fight with GAFE we used to have cross gunfight with government and zetas.”

BB: “Who are the Escorpiones?”

El Fantasma: “Escorpiones were the bodyguard of tony tormenta we were train by the United States Marine ,  Kaibiles , Navy seal they got pay to train us to become good bodyguards and how to shoot and pick up people and how to be in gunfight the Escorpión were also Mexican police, soldiers, judiciales, and United States military people.”

BB: “Tell me about Tony Tormenta, what kind of person was he?”

El Fantasma: “Tony tormenta aka TT160 he was a person that build a lot of houses help schools gave the people money when they need help oh i forgot Osiel wasn’t de acuerdo that his brother build los Escorpión and that’s why made up the zetas. Tony was a person that would have your back when you need help.”

BB: “How did they take down Tormenta and was there an attempted rescue?”

El Fantasma: “tormenta was Capture a few times that’s why el lazca and 40 would always say that tormenta was working with the DEA or the us government. But his brother mario cardenas and osiel paid money so the military wouldn’t touch him any more but we all knew that he wasn’t because we would find out how he was talking  the government.

Tony tormenta dead i remember that day it was at 9am in nove 5 2010 in Matamoros Tamaulipas we all receive a call on the radio that PAPA and Comandante Tyson and some of his bodyguards were trap and there was 4 truck of f150 de soldados in colonia telmex and we had to go from our save house in colonia mexico in the street call xochimilco the hole city was crazy that 1st gun fight lasted about 3 hrs there were about 15 trucks of sicarios and comandante Barrera was the one that enter in reverse and went all the way in to get tormenta out of the house . Comandante 1 Tyson escape by the back door and got a taxi. Me and ranger move to the other street to make sure the soldiers wouldn’t flank us. The words were PAPA is free get out of there then 41 marinos are on there way to back the 40 soldados so we got out.”

BB: “It is said that Tormenta was captured initially by the military. But later the military denied capturing him. There was a rumor that military was paid off to release him, can you expand if this is in fact true or if he was in fact captured the first time?”

El Fantasma: “The second battle was around 1 pm in downtown matamoros  tam well all the radios sound again saying apollo apollo estamos rociados desde 41 we got out from the save house asap trying to get there getting to calle canales close to the bus station we had to find our way to get close to the boss you can hear the guns , granadas, ones we got there on calle primera we had to run closer one we got there we were 2 blocks away from the boss we had a really bad gunfight. I saw a box truck were the marines were in side. The sicario aka poli got hit by a granada. Ones the marines got the radio and said su jefe tormenta está muerto junto con tyson y sus escoltas ballansen Escorpiones we try to get out but the roads were block. My truck got shoot by the helicopter. All night the government were looking for us by air and land.  2 days later truck with our own people tied up and eyes cover were coming in because someone snitch a lot of information so we had to kill our own people.we all knew something was wrong from nov 3 2010 there was a lot of movement even the military people from United States came in with escort going to the marine base Nov 5 2010  there was 680 mexican marines  I also saw FBI people and DEA people in the gunfight”

BB: “Did you personally know Osiel and if you did, tell us a little about him.

El Fantasma: “Osiel Cardenas he was a person wanted the job done his way when tormenta died we had a message say going to get his pay back. I was fighting the Zetas for many reasons . I remember the zetas came in and throw granadas to a kindergarten so the can calentar la plaza and the government or the people wouldn’t like us , they killed some of my family members, The people from valle hermoso and matamoros tam would tell us we saw some zetas staying at these house or they came to our store and ask us for money.”

BB: “Where you fighting the Z on behalf of CDG?”

El Fantasma: “I all claim CDG the people would likes us a lot we never mess with them at all we had rules to obey.”

BB: “Whos was El Diablo?”

El Fantasma: “El Diablo David rosales ? El comandante Diablo jefe de Monterrey nuevo leon he was a cool guy smart.”

BB: “Did you know El Lazca or Z-40? If you can you tell us a little how they got along, or if you can tell us something that the media got wrong?”

El Fantasma: “El Z 40 or L40 aka san judas yea he always wanted to be a real boss so he knew that been in the CDG he wouldn’t never be a real boss so he switch sides lazcano was is boss but he and always together but lazcano made a big mistake on trusting him 40 always wanted lazcano place so he always gave him phones tap because 40 wanted to change the cartel name to treviños cartel but. The media or the news thinks that Lazcano is dead but some cartels know he’s not because no one would go and pick up a dead body and everything that the news is saying is not true the cartel only let them say what they want to let you know become

I remember how the government received money they would say go do your job there a car in such place pick it up and in side there money , guns, drugs, and we will give you any guys from the streets so you can show your job the next day there the news guns , people , drugs but yea were the money the government keep their payment. Why you think when something goes wrong with American people they do the same thing so they can say they capture the people that did it or when a boss is doing wrong he would turn in a high ranker so they can stop both them and let them work.”

BB: “How do you see the cartels now, as when you were involved?”

El Fantasma: “The cartels back when i was there were actually real cartels we had rules , were more discipline , we knew what to do or how to work the cartels these day there just fighting each other instead of making money and protect the territory there not discipline. They don’t get paid good they are just playing around not know how to work and they always run from gunfight.”

BB: “What is your opinion of CDN/Tropa del Infierno?”

El Fantasma: CDN and Tropa del Infierno there just fight because they want to control each other i see it like the Zetas and CDG when the had the war the government wouldn’t do notting they would let them kill each other.”

BB: “Who are Los Zetas de la Vieja Escuela are they the same as the CDN?”

El Fantasma: “Zetas are just the name and zetas vieja escuela are the ones that founded the real zetas like los 20’zetas the orijinales los halcones or guardias are the ones that follow the soldiers all over the streets and are the eyes of the cartels there everywhere in bus station, airports, stores, with out the halcones or guardias the cartels are Nothing.”

BB: “Do you know anything about Juan Gerardo Treviño Chávez, aka El Huevo?”

El Fantasma: “El Huevo only that he had orders to keep the treviño last name as a cartel name.”

BB: “Tell us the difference or what are Los Halcones, Punteros, Focas or, Células, estacas and Los Comandantes?”

El Fantasma: “Punteros or pistoleros are the ones that protect the city in 4 door trucks with 4 people in each truck comandante, sub commander and 2 low ranker with different guns and 3 granadas focas could be anything or the girls that go to the rival city and get info so they can bring back so the  cartels could invite the city celulas are just a group of people together like saying there a celula of truck coming Estacas or FR are the ones that also protects the city they have to react quickly each colonia has like 5 – 10 estacas also has 4 people on each truck or FR fuersa y reaction every cartel has different names for the people estacas , punteros , guardias , halcones , alfas, lobos, ect los comandantes they were in charge of the estacas , or the city they had more responsibility in the cartel you had to earn you way to comandante,”

BB: “What do you see with the new and recent cartels and where do you see them in the near future?”

El Fantasma: “what i see in the cartels is that they change a lot the lower cartels are just killing each other they just kids that don’t now Nothing in the future the cartel are still going to out smart the government i been reading the borderlands beat may be like 2 weeks but i also remember el Judicial Amador from valle hermoso tam he would always capture zetas and give them to us because they killed his brother and some family the one day the zetas killed him i also remember when comandante E 1 went on vacation he would trust us Ranger and me to be in charge of valle hermoso tam.”

End if interview.
We hope to get him doing a more depth interview in a podcast, coming soon.

The scene in Mataromos in 2010 when Tony Tormenta and Tyson, leaders of the Escorpiones were killed.

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